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Immediately retired the Glock 17 and requalified with a Glock 21 Gen 4 after a long break. Without fragmentation, temporary cavity wounds can be relatively minor. While 9mm is not as good at killing men as the 45 Auto, it is smaller, lighter, cheaper, easier to handle, and allows more opportunities to miss the target.. In my limited experience, shot placement is is the ultimate factor with any round. A more accurate equation is (terminal) Energy, defined as 1/2 the mass times the velocity squared. But for those of us that like to aim and make good hits Ill take the 45 as a primary with a compact 9 as a backup. It worries me that you feel safe carrying a .45 acp around bears and moose. The only reason law enforcement and, military use a 9mm is budget. Very accurate and deadly, The bullet travels at 1450 FPS. Americans have this impression, I think, that comes from watching too many old movies, that a bullet fired from a handgun is supposed to flip the bad guys ten feet into the air, if not disintegrate them altogether and leave a smoking pair of haji sandals on the pavement where they were. This is what can incapacitate a target, even with a poorly placed torso shot. Fortunately, physiological factors are often not the deciding factor. Our team, our mission, our partners, and more. It was modified to accept a detachable magazine and equipped with a folding stock. Glocks are cheap and reliable. Even later to the conversation but figured Id throw my ring in the hate. Everyone should buy a magnum-powered handgun in .357 or larger caliber and feel completely secure that he or she has the best stopping power. He watched MARSOC during a multi-national special forces competition, MARSOC couldnt compete with the low capacity 1911. However, others say that the lowly .22 LR has the best stopping power, since it stays in the targets body and bounces around, shredding arteries and punching holes in internal organs. But nearly worthless in real world situations. However, it does suffer from the same issue as the .40s&w, and that is that its snappier in its recoil impulse. Okay 9s are cool, hold a lot of rounds, small recoil, cheap to shoot and buy. Well my neighbor finally bought the pistol from him and turned around and qualified with it in front of the other deputy. WebWhen youre in the midst of dealing with an attack, the reduction in blood flow to your hands (along with the chemical changes in your body) will likely result in an increase in your pain threshold. It enters the human body at energies approaching the speed of light and There was no blood on the floor below him. Robert MacNemerra knew nothing about firearms but his decision that the AR-15s chrome lined bore and chamber was a needless waste of money brought a whole lot of grief to a whole lot of people. It got up and walked about 25 yards before falling. Id rather be hit by a small rock than a big one. Im very confident a 45 caliber would have been one and done. 2.1 and 2.5 million defensive gun uses annually, Law Enforcement Assistance Administration, Arming Yourself: A Woman's Guide to Self Defense and Concealed Carry (CCW), Protecting Your Family: A Parent's Guide to Self Defense and Concealed Carry (CCW), Arming the Elderly: A Self-Defense Guide for Senior Citizens, Holsters for Self Defense: A Guide to Carrying Concealed, Arming Toddlers and The "Kinder-Guardians" Program: A Shamefully Bad Idea, Self Defense for LGBT: Self-Protection and Concealed Carry (CCW) for the LGBT Community, Arming the Disabled: A Self-Defense and Concealed Carry Guide for People With Disabilities. Web45 ACP Ammo | 45 ACP Ammo for Sale | Ammunition Depot 3/2/2023 ON SALE Ammunition Bulk Ammo Bulk 223 Ammo Bulk 9mm Ammo Bulk 45 ACP Ammo Bulk 380 Ammo Bulk 308 Ammo Bulk 7.62x39 Ammo Bulk 22 LR Ammo Bulk Pistol Ammo Bulk Rifle Ammo Bulk Shotgun Ammo Handgun Ammo 9mm Ammo 380 Ammo 45 ACP Ammo 38 Special All studies are greatly flawed and there is no serious pursuit of better studies due to the enormous difficulty, if not impossibility, of scientifically analyzing real-life shooting incidents. The results may surprise many as it did myself. Thats the secret. And they call themselves a forensics expert.. So for over a couple hundred years size mattered in stopping power, or say incapacitating an opponent. And since the FBI was the agency who failed in the first place well, why follow thier blind lead? But a high-muzzle weapon shatters that bone into hundreds of microscopic pieces, in a way that cannot be repaired. Damage: 22. He is the author of two published books on deadly force and an upcoming book on supervisory and municipal liability in law enforcement. My opinion is he got shot in the living room and after he kicked the door in. I think everyone should think back to why the 1911 was made. For a bullet to be effective for law enforcement, it must be able to penetrate the body between 12 and 18 inches to reach large vital organs to cause rapid blood loss. Such as my Kimber and Walther and can never forget the CZ shadow 2. Center Mass/head shots are guaranteed kills. Their over 800 FPS and some approaching 900 FPS with the hotter +P loads. Any of these rounds will do the job in the hands of a skilled shooter, period. by Kyle Mizokami Key Point: These are the bullets that will do the It scares the hell out of me to think I might have had to use a 9 mm. Request a quote for the most accurate & reliable non-lethal training, A shootout that killed multiple FBI agents underscores the need for cops to use bullets that will neutralize an adversary as quickly as possible. It is often said in sports talk, that the game is a game of inches. This is also true in life and death gun battles like the FBI Miami shootout. Wouldnt waste my money on it. This recent policy change and operational change means the U.S. Marine Corps' special arm of SOCOM (U.S. Special Operations Command) has also come to terms with the debate of 9mm vs. .45ACP. Most of these wanna be gangsters are cowards and are used to shooting at people who dont have guns to shoot back. A true warriors gun. unless the guy is coming at you with body armor, if you have more than three bullets in your gun you dont really have a lot to worry about. I also am a NRA Certified Instructor and gunsmith in Colorado. Police1 is revolutionizing the way the law enforcement community Ive carried about every size round in my 71+ years of which 36 was an LEO. Semiautomatic rifles dont shoot the largest bullets on the market. In September 2014, LooserRounds posted an article titled FBI Training Division Justifies 9mm Caliber Selection. If a projectile has features that would cause it to expand upon impact, U.S. Army engineers Donald Carlucci and Sidney Jacobson explained in the textbook, Ballistics: Theory and Design of Guns and Ammunition. Yet the 12 is more powerful and more lead, but one shot can put some on their hind end. Have fun be safe and shoot often for sport and recreation and maybe someday to save your life and loved ones! Interesting. An exit wound differs greatly from an entrance wound. I know they dont keep records like this; but if you could count all the rounds fired in a battle, and how many kills were made by each caliber; would that not be a better indicator of the efficiency of the caliber. If the Government is involved in any way, money will change hands. But the guy kept on coming. At that long distance, the .223 will slam into its target with almost twice the speed of the .22. The wider bullet also creates a bigger cavity in whatever it passes through. Can someone comment on this? It turns out, however, that things arent that simple. That changed for me Dec of 2017. In other words slower bullet JHP more energy transferred more effective. But according to the FBI (First Bunch of Idiots) it isnt possible. Possible off hand 200. On a side note, this is the recent trend move away from larger calibers to smaller ones. U.S. Navy SeaBees m60 & 45 caliber was my issue. I assume that it is cost that is the main concern. A sniper friend said once if bigger is better throw bricks he was using a 243 cal not a 300 win mag nor a Lupa 338. Shorter barrels or longer range of initial impact will likewise decrease the possibility of expansion. The answer is Yes. Indeed, in some studies, such as one conducted by the Law Enforcement Assistance Administration (LEAA), the temporary cavity is assumed to be the primary handgun wounding factor. I am not old. Obama wants us dead. While the classic .45 ACP round is large, its also relatively slow, with an average velocity of 850-900 FPS for most types of ammo. Its only a pistol. Although it should be noted that Glock is manufacturing in the US now, Sig Sauer is as well. This, as with any other type of penetration test, is plagued with inaccuracies. While this research is geared toward law enforcement officers, it cuts through the confusion, and provides common-sense, scientifically supported principles by which the effectiveness of self-defense ammunition may more generally be measured. /9mm has a lot more options when it comes to ammo but I prefer my Springfield XD .45 or my Kimber Custom II 1911. Patricks treatise outlines the following factors to consider regarding handgun bullets: Accordingly, the best handgun rounds will reliably cause a permanent cavity that will penetrate the soft tissue of an adversary between 12 and 18 inches. to a target, which ripples out as a shockwave through tissue as the bullet plows through the body, leaving a cavity in its wake. So any caliber is better than none. I shot Master for a while. Because of the dynamic and chaotic nature of officer-involved shootings, officers are trained to shoot at center mass of an assailants torso from whatever side/angle of the torso that presents itself. CHEERS. The kidneys separate this material from the blood. For a tommygun, I'd probably go with 1d8 base damage, +1 magical weapon bonus to represent penetration and damage, and the ability to make a cone area attack (save or take damage). Only two factors are within your control: the location of the wound and the amount of tissue destroyed. I also own both my fathers series 70 .45 (very accurate, low recoil due to mass, gunsmith tuned trigger that feels like butter, and extra fat grips) And a Kahr K40 (small, easy to conceal, but has a HORRENDOUS trigger pull and snappy recoil). Then you missed. Studies based on law enforcement shootings that are available to us show that only one or two solid torso hits can be expected at best. Everyone talking about knock down power verses speed seems like. However, I purchased the 9 mm because for a carry gun I feel safer with the style of firearm I bought for daily carry purposes. However, if the bullet lacks a JHP configuration, then its not doing as well as it could. You cannot make a man by standing a sheep on its hind legs. I have used the 1911 govt. Why bullet size matters in police shootings | PoliceOne.com It is also of considerable general interest if for no other reason than to show how often the movie makers and novel writers make appalling blunders. .223 Rem in 5.56 NATO is OK. The FBI just did the same thing. Any round can accomplish that, even the much-maligned .22. I read a study from an Army medic regarding one shot kills from a handgun. This is pretty interesting BTW https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/. To the extent the wound components cause or increase the effects of these two mechanisms, the likelihood of incapacitation increases. In one case study of a 24-year-old man struck in the chest by a .40-caliber hollow-point pistol round, doctors found organ damage outside the direct path of the bullet. In this article, we will present what we believe to be the most credible information regarding wound ballistics from studies conducted by the FBIs Firearms Training Academy in legendary Quantico, Virginia. In the words of Dr. Peter Rhee, a leading trauma surgeon and a retired Navy captain with 24-years of service, talking about all handgun wounds including .45 ACP and 9mm, he said, A Handgun wound is simply a stabbing with a bullet. If another prefers a 9mm let him use it. I carry a 10auto. I carry a para-ordinance warthog in 45 when its cold.I shoot the gun enought to know I can hit what Im aiming at. They are a secondary source at best. Take a look at the FBI stats on their testing of various pistol ammunition as well as other reputable studies. Since 1959 we have striven as a family-owned business to build a gun shop that is here to grow with your family. Yes, I will agree that air resistance is constantly at work against a bullet, thereby slowing it down as it travels toward its intended target. I know some are going to maybe chuckle but when I want a deep concealed handgun, I go with my PF9 Keltec. Police, f.b.i., train. Regards Jim, Sorry for the typos are you speak to text because I cant text like my child. Whether it hits the shoulder, the leg, arm, hip, whatever. The deers shot with 9 ran and ran far compared to the short distance the 45 shot deer covered (100yds or less). are items made in occupied japan worth anything,